John Laws scores our prime ministers out of 10
Fitz: The most famous moment of your career was when Paul Keating told you that if he could not implement sensible economic policy as treasurer, Australia would become a “third-rate economy…a banana republic”. I remember someone telling me at the time that you didn’t know what a banana republic was at that moment and that he should have told a producer that.
J.L.: A rough idea came to my mind. Actually, there is a story floating around that I don’t know about, but that’s not the case.
Fitz: Keating’s famous quote was: “If you want to reach the middle of Australia, talk to John Laws.” At that point you were at the absolute peak of your influence. What was it like to be able to change public perception of the mood of the day and have an impact on the politics of the day?
J.L.: I never thought about it. I just stated my opinions.
Kevin Rudd has lunch with Laws in 2007. Laws rates him four out of 10 as prime minister.Credit: Dean Sewell
Fitz: It surprises me that a man of his influence does not claim to be a deeper thinker than you. [Jocularly] I’m telling you, John Laws, you’re as shallow as a birdbath!
J.L.: This is a nice expression.
Fitz: So what’s the answer?
J.L.: The answer is; I’m as deep as I should be.
Fitz: Let me tell you, because of your level of influence you had a responsibility to dig deep, to get to the bottom of an issue and find out what the rights and wrongs of it were.
J.L.: I was always aware that I needed to think about things, not just go along because I was advised to do so.
Fitz: But then we get to the whole “getting paid for comments” thing.
J.L.: That was such nonsense. Someone asked me to do something. But I didn’t do it for the money and everything got blown out of proportion. This was just stupid.
Fitz: You had contracts and the money wasn’t going to charities, it was about inflating the banks’ tires in exchange for big checks and that money went to you.
J.L.: . . .
Laws about “paying for comments”: “That was ridiculous.”Credit:
Fitz: Before we move on, here’s a slightly awkward moment in the recording… Most fascinating interview subject in your 70 years?
J.L.:Robin Williams. He came into the studio, sat down, and said: “I have to let you know right before we start. I have exactly 10 fucking minutes.” He was there three hours later. He and I had the best time. God, he was so smart.
Fitz: I remember when you were at the height of your powers and fame, you gave a very sad quote, you said something like: “To everyone, I’m not just me, I’m John Laws. Even to members of my family, I John Laws.” Have you ever felt lonely because of this fame?
J.L.: My fame was a fact. But this was not always a pleasant reality.
Fitz: You had some major feuds, particularly with Alan Jones.
J.L.: Yes, for a very long time, but we are friends now.
Laws with his wife Caroline, whom he calls “princess”, in 2007. Credit: Lee Besford
Fitz: I’m sorry to hear that. I remember during the height of your fight Jones pulling out a tape measure at the 2UE studios in St Leonards to make sure his office was bigger than yours. Do you remember that episode?
J.L.: I remember this, and it was because his manager was an even bigger jerk: Harry M. Miller. But it’s me [office] It was bigger.
Fitz: Okay, let’s go to our experienced streamer friends. What do you think of the imminent retirement of 3AW’s Neil Mitchell?
J.L.: [Dismissively.] I didn’t care at all.
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Fitz: Ray Hadley? He was Jones’ athlete and he filled in for you, which gave him the start. Then it went up to 2GB and played pretty much the same kind of shows as you, complete with the same kind of music, etc. Were you upset about that?
J.L.: Oh, no. I’m surprised he doesn’t have an opinion of his own. I’m still stunned.
Fitz: Okay, let’s go back to your remarkable self-speech in 2007. You timed it perfectly at the first beep to the news. I was watching closely and described it this way: reporter that he then collapsed for a minute and sat silently, like a master craftsman who has abandoned his tools knowing that he will never pick up his tools again after 53 years. And yet here we are, 16 years later and you Still outgoing. From where?
J.L.: At the time, I never felt like I was running out of strength or ability to communicate, but I was tired. Now why am I still here? Because I love it, I Love BT. And other than that, sitting around doing next to nothing was unhealthy. It wasn’t good for me.
Paul Keating appeared regularly on John Laws’ 2UE. Credit: Andrew Taylor
Fitz: You always said that the greatest love of your life was your late wife Caroline, whom you called “princess”. Sorry if it’s too personal, but do you miss him a lot now that he’s passed away?
J.L.: [Very softly]. Yes, I miss him very much. Every day. Every afternoon I sit in my chair at home and most of the time I imagine her walking down the hall towards me… Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Fitz: Was he the only person you were around for? Negative Is John Laws the only person who can say, “Sit down, John, and shut up?”
J.L.: Of course it was up to him, and if he had said it, I would have done it too.
Fitz: Well, let’s take a look at the recent prime ministers you know and have interviewed extensively and give them a score out of 10. Bob Hawke?
J.L.: Nine
Fitz: Paul Keating?
J.L.: Nine.
Fitz: John Howard?
J.L.: Ten.
Fitz: Kevin Rudd?
J.L.: Four.
Fitz: Julia Gillard?
J.L.: Seven.
Fitz: Scott Morrison?
J.L.: Oh, I don’t even remember that!
Fitz: Anthony Albanese?
J.L.: Oh, I like him. I think it’s going well. I think I’d give it a nine out of 10.
Fitz: How do you think Opposition Leader Peter Dutton is doing?
J.L.: Pretty ineffective.
Fitz: I’m not sure I know which way you’ve been voting all these years. I used to think you were a far-right nutcase. I’m not so sure these days. Can I ask which way you voted on the Voice?
J.L.: NO.
Fitz: From where?
J.L.: Because I don’t want to tell you.
Fitz: OK. Nearly 20 years ago, when I first heard my sons use the word “asshole,” I showed them around the kitchen and told them what a terrible word it was and to never use it again. They stated that it happens every other episode Family man. While I wasn’t looking, time had changed around me. Don’t you ever feel like time is passing? You By the things you think and say?
J.L.: No, I think I’m very lucky to be a good observer. And I observe what is happening around. I want to keep up with the times and I am keeping up.
Fitz: But you had this infamous rule that women in your office had to wear skirts. Is this rule still valid?
J.L.: Yes.
Fitz: That would be against the law, John.
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J.L.: The staff doesn’t care. Look at these. They are all happy. And this is voluntary. The reason I insisted they wear skirts was because if important people were coming, I didn’t want them to walk around in shorts and trousers, I wanted them to look like efficient young women, they always have been, they still are now.
Fitz: But in your 70 years on the air, you’ve been wondering, “Oh my God. Why did I say that? What was I thinking? Why did I say that?” There may have been times when you thought:
J.L.: Not that I remember.
[We are politely interrupted by John’s EA, informing him that the news has broken that Henry Kissinger has died.]
Fitz: Have you met or interviewed Kissinger, John?
J.L.: I was with him at a cocktail party. He was the only person I talked to and the only person he talked to was me. He had a great brain and was amazing. A lovely, lovely man.
Fitz: There will come a day, John, hopefully at least 15 or 20 years from now, when the news will come that you have died. What do you want the Australian public to say?
J.L.: “Finally!”
Fitz: Thank you, I mean this with all sincerity: it was a pleasure.
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