Have courage to create fossil fuel phaseout roadmap at Cop30, Brazilian minister urges | Cop30

Brazilian Environment Minister Marina Silva called on all countries to have the courage to meet the need to phase out fossil fuels, saying preparing a road map for this was an “ethical” response to the climate crisis.

However, he emphasized that the process would be voluntary for governments that wish to participate and “will make their own decisions”.

The issue is one of the most controversial at the COP30 summit in Brazil; countries are fighting over whether and how such a road map should be discussed. As hosts, Brazil remains carefully neutral about what might be on the official agenda.

Silva spoke approvingly of the potential for a road map without explicitly committing to Brazil. He said: “When we have pretty bad terrain or environment, it’s good to have a map. But the map doesn’t force us to travel or climb.”

In an exclusive interview with the Guardian, he added: “The map is a response to our scientific knowledge [of the climate crisis]. “This is an ethical response.”

Scores of countries gathered in Belém for the UN climate summit, now in its second week, want to determine how the global phase-out of fossil fuels would work. They want to build on a historic decision to “move away from fossil fuels” at Cop28 in Dubai two years ago.

There was no timeline for this pledge or details of how it could be achieved, and although it was unanimously agreed upon, some countries have since attempted to reject the pledge. Attempts last year to elaborate on what this would mean in practice were blocked by opposition from petrostates at COP29 in Azerbaijan, which is heavily dependent on oil and gas exports.

As a result, the transition away from fossil fuels was not addressed as a result of COP29.

For these reasons, Brazil has been wary of calls by some countries to put the transition process on the COP30 agenda. But Silva worked hard behind the scenes to ensure that the pledge could be discussed outside the official agenda at the summit.

He won over Brazilian President Luis Inácio Lula da Silva, who publicly addressed the need to “move away from dependence on fossil fuels” three times at the summit of world leaders ahead of COP30 and at the opening of the conference.

“This is something we know has to be brought forward at some point because it is the only way to confront the problem at its root,” Marina Silva said. “We are aware that this is not easy and we cannot sell false hopes. It is brave to raise the issue and I hope [to see] This encouragement comes from everyone, producers and consumers.”

He said Brazil did not initiate the phase-out call because it was done at Cop28. Instead, discussions were allowed to take place in the direction some countries wanted. “We know these issues are sensitive. We will give them the opportunity to discuss it,” he said.

There is not enough time to prepare a roadmap at COP30; This process could take several years, Silva said, as many countries face complex issues of dependence on fossil fuels or want to use revenues from the sale of fossil fuels to finance their development.

“Brazil raises the issue because Brazil is both a producer and a consumer,” he said. “But Brazil is different because Brazil doesn’t have to depend on fossil fuels if it wants to. We have to understand that there are some whose economies are dependent on fossil fuels and there are no easy solutions, and there are others for whom fossil fuels are the basis of their economy.”

“To be fair is to be fair to everyone, but the essential, primitive justice is to not be unfair to the planet, because this is our home.”

If the commitment receives sufficient support, Cop30 could create a forum where the process of preparing a roadmap for phasing out could begin.

Silva said the process will require dialogue with all signatories to the UN framework convention on climate change (UNFCCC) and criteria for how the process will proceed. “When we have criteria, the governance structure can be drawn; when we have a strategy and create assurances that will build trust in the process, I believe that with these elements, we can turn good ideas into clearer, more concrete steps.”

There is no guarantee that a proposal to start drawing up a road map will win approval at COP30, even if it does not require the formal approval of the conference, which proceeds by consensus and can be hijacked by special interests. Police experts told the Guardian they believed such a proposal would attract support from around 60 countries, but at least 40 countries were thought to oppose it. 195 countries are represented in the talks.

Leo Roberts, program leader at think tank E3G, said: “Despite being the root cause of climate change, fossil fuels are the most contentious issue in the UN negotiations, so to see a large group of countries openly supporting a route towards global phasing out is pretty groundbreaking in itself.

“Simply put, there is no path to a world where warming stays below 1.5 degrees Celsius and countries cannot discuss phasing out fossil fuels.”

Juan Carlos Monterrey, Panama’s climate negotiator, said: “We really need this language in this conversation. It’s pretty stupid for us to talk about anything else when the real problem is fossil fuels.”

Negotiations continued on Saturday on four key issues that have not yet been put on the official agenda: trade, transparency, finance and how to close the gap between the emissions cuts countries plan and those required to comply with the 1.5C temperature limit.

Cop30 president André Corrêa do Lago promised a “note” to address these issues after consultations that have been ongoing since Monday proved inconclusive. He called on countries to adopt this resolution:mutirao” spirit means collaboration and constructive discussion.

The Presidency said that work on other important issues continues fruitfully, including adaptation to the effects of the climate crisis, a just transition for those affected by the transition to a low-carbon economy, and how to build institutional capacity in developing countries.

Brazil’s chief negotiator, Liliam Chagas, said the technical part of the Police process was nearing completion and the political phase had begun, with ministers empowered to change their country’s stance.