Kalyan Singh told an ‘utter lie’: K.K. Venugopal on Babri Masjid case

When did you decide to name your book? Accident Lawyer?

The issue of my accidental entry into the legal profession arose when I first dropped out of B.Sc. I decided to start getting into physics and the legal profession. From the very beginning, I accidentally identified myself as a lawyer.

Your father, the star and senior advocate of the constitution, MK Nambyar, had a great influence on you. Can you tell us more about him? You said that he didn’t show any overt affection, but you always felt his love for you.

The relationship between father and son or children in the 1930s, 40s and 50s was completely different from the relationship between father and son today. This hugging thing started only after I came to Delhi. It was never there before that. There was love, but there was also a respectful distance. I admired my father.

There’s an anecdote where, as a scout, you had to show courage by climbing down a rope from a burning house. Another example of swimming by risking your life. Then you encounter an elephant in Africa. Why did you take such risks?

I don’t think twice before taking risks. If I sit back and think about it, of course I won’t take any risks.

You have an enviable art collection and antique library. Could you tell us a little about this passion for collecting? What works of art do you collect? Do you have a preferred semester or school?

I have always been a collector, an art collector, a painting collector, a craft collector. If I like a painting, I buy it. But of course, I would keep an eye on the actor and the possibility that the painting would increase in value over the years.

Are you still into comics and Westerns?

I started with comic books when I was a kid. I started reading Western comics when I was about 10 years old. Today I have a collection of 60 books by Louis L’Amour; Almost all of the books he wrote consist of 120 pages.

The book details your travels and wanderlust. In a chapter about your travels to Tibet, you talk about a spiritual experience described as “peace that pervades the mind.” How does travel help?

I don’t think I thought about whether it would help me or anything like that on that basis. But it was actually an experience and I think everyone should have this experience. And today, of course, everything has become very easy, because you can go by car, you can go by helicopter, and for 15 days we had to walk on narrow roads on the slopes of the mountains with a slope of 60 meters and a river flowing 200 meters below.

Your spouse, your constant companion, left at a relatively young age. What were the years like after that, your job and your loneliness while your three young children were growing up?

The funny thing is, instead of me taking care of them in their last days, my wife called all three of them and said, “Your father will feel my absence very much.” Therefore you must behave and take good care of him’… I never felt alone.

As a lawyer, you have represented many prime ministers, states and senior politicians. Is it more challenging for them to show up?

It didn’t matter to me whether the person was the Prime Minister or another customer. They had to come to me. I would never go to a prime minister.

There is a heartbreaking chapter in your book that describes the horror of the Delhi riots that you yourself witnessed. What was the trigger for these riots?

In the case of these Sikh rebellions, this was an order from the political masters.

You said objectivity is a plus for lawyers. We now see lawyers coming to courts with cases that have social implications. Has objectivity decreased in recent years?

It depends on the government. In a secular state like India, it is the duty of the government to ensure that there is no difference between one religious community and another or between one caste and another. They need to ensure that there is no discrimination or oppression. If this is not done, we cannot hold our heads up.

In the chapter ‘Reaping the Whirlwind’ on the Babri Masjid demolition, you write that you told Justice Venkatachaliah and other judges: “I bow my head in shame. The faster this demolition takes place, let the Union of India and the Central government put the bricks back so that the next day the Masjid remains whole and untouched.” You were the lawyer of Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Kalyan Singh in the Supreme Court.

I thought they were the right words to say. From where? Because Kalyan Singh had said that he would take necessary precautions to prevent any destruction. That there was a bridge and that if they tried to enter, the police would stop them at it. But no effort was made to stop it [the kar sevaks] from entering. They came and destroyed it… I thought that if the bricks were replaced that same night, there would be chaos. But the Attorney General [Milon K. Banerjee] He said I was trying to do something “very, very funny”. I think the real reason was that the Congress thought they would lose their vote bank if the bricks were put back… Kalyan Singh told a complete lie.

Have you felt a sense of betrayal? Did you say that Kalyan Singh knew more than what he told you and assured the court that this would not happen?

Not only that, he also submitted an affidavit and I gave it to him. [to the court]. Milan [Banerjee, the Attorney General] He gave an intelligence report stating that kar sevaks were trained for a long period of time. They were ready to come and destroy. Demolition will be carried out. However, Justice Venkatachaliah had to accept Kalyan Singh’s promise that would not be fulfilled. And this is the result. Kalyan Singh was ready to mislead the court and mislead me.

Do you think the Supreme Court Bench has lost its importance? He almost never uses his veto power. A recent Collegium judgment stated that the government changed its mind about transferring a High Court judge to a particular High Court because it did not want him there.

If you look at the original Article 124, the government had the power to decide who would be appointed where. Therefore, let us proceed by keeping in mind that the government has the power to make appointments, at least according to the original Constitution. So this would still be something that is consistent with what the government wants and what the consultee, the Board, needs to agree to.

Judges say this or that is against the national interest. But judges are supposed to interpret the law and the Constitution. Should they speak on behalf of the national interest?

A law that is not in the public interest will be repealed. National interest is an aspect of the public interest.

The Supreme Court in its recent judgments has said that we need to move towards a casteless society. Do you agree?

I completely agree. The problem of this country is caste. Everything. So if you marry someone outside your caste, you kill the bride or groom. Caste is now something that has shaken the whole country… But then you can take it from me. I cannot foresee a time when caste will disappear.

Do you think women are less recognized in the legal profession now? We have only one female judge in the Supreme Court.

There are many excellent women lawyers and judges in high courts who can be directly elevated to the Supreme Court. Why are you promoting male referees wholesale?